Tuesday, November 13, 2007

Narcissism: Perversity is Endless

Thanks to commenter who supplied the name of that french author I mentioned in my last post: Marie-France-Hirigoyen. There is an English edition of one of her books entitled, Stalking the Soul.

And here is a review.

I agree with both the reviewer and with the author. How can that be? I agree that we are poorly armed, but I really don't think we need a clockwork orange run by social engineers, either. I think we just need a return to freedom and self reliance. I think we need all the social engineering holier-than-thous and all the religious holier-than-thous to shut up when they have anything anti-logical to say. Which would keep them quiet most of the time.

The answer to the problem of evil in the world is to deter it. There. See? Did that take an Einstein? Every child knows this. If somebody punches you, make it cost him. If you don't, expect another punch tomorrow.

I have seen total idiocy among school teachers on this. They think that both kids in a fight are automatically wrong. What simpletons. They need their Commandments boiled down to a cheat sheet of literal dos and don'ts, because they have no moral sense and therefore can't tell right from wrong.

They create the perfect world for bullies. You know, like all the bystanders - who have nothing to say about the narcissist's abuse but condemn you the victim for anything you do to try to put a stop to it.

ANYTHING. They condemn you for hitting back. They condemn you for yelling back. They condemn you for countering the character-assassinating lies he is spreading about you - you must let him murder you this way without showing that he is lying by projection, for that would damage the poor little character assassin's good name! Yes, the holier-than-thous are that crazy. They condemn you for abandoning the poor, hurt little dear. If he or she is in your school, after they have condemned you for every other thing you might do to protect yourself, they seal the door to your torture chamber by condemning you for skipping class. In other words, they insist that you present yourself daily to your abuser for more abuse. AND that you submit to it without doing anything in your defense.

Ah, perversity is endless.

When I began teaching, I was shocked (but later understood) when an old colleague of mine said that he never ran to stop a fight. He timed his arrival to make sure the really angry kid got a few licks in. Why? Because he knew that the school administrators were idiots and that both kids would be punished equally with virtually no effort to find out and stop what had caused the fight. Therefore, those few licks were the only deterrent to the jerk who had started the fight by picking on the other kid till he just couldn't take any more (and feel like he had a spine).

In short, we need to speak up and shout down the idiots who keep preaching that self defense is a sin and that justice is "revenge" and that you must "forgive" the unforgivable = an offense in progress, a denied offense, a continuing offense = an unrepented offense.

Some people, many people, are amoral. They have no moral restraints. Unless you want to be their victim, you had better teach them an object lesson to go find easier prey.

And no, normal people don't get carried away with the freedom to defend themselves. The control-freak religious rulers and social engineers would have us think so, but that is baloney. Normal people HATE conflict. They hate fighting. The only time they are even tempted to fight is when under some sort of attack. We are just like other animals in this. They snarl and snap at an intrusion or offense and two seconds later have forgotten about it.

Why? Because the purpose was DEFENSIVE - to back the other party off. Once that mission is accomplished, it's done. Getting carried away just doesn't happen when DEFENSE your cause and goal. It's not even a temptation.

The abuser is the one who has other goals, offensive ones that he or she gets carried away with. It's the abnormal people, those who are predators, who get carried away. And what carries them away is a victim lying down for it.

Ironic, eh? Exactly what the holier-than-thous force the victim to do is what what causes the victim to eventually snap and go ballistic. I say let people defend themselves. Then they will put an end to abuse when it starts, long before it escalates to such a point.

We need these sanctimonious hypocrites to stop making out people to be evil if they fight back. Or run away. As in divorce or skipping school. You cannot force people to submit to abuse. That is the Sin of Sodom, otherwise known as making someone bend over for it. It violates the Laws of Nature. And common sense.

Beyond that, all we need is for the mental health profession to do its job by making sure the public IS aware of how many predators are out there. Most people have no idea that predators are not rare and that everyone runs into them. If people knew this, they'd be a good deal more careful and would take warning signs seriously.

What a better, safer world it would then be.

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17 Comments:

At 10:15 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Again, I needed to hear this today. My evil ex-N is still able to torment me through the court system even though we are divorced already, we have two children and so I will never be free of him.

I just want to not have to interact with him anymore. No contact is my only dream anymore, but it is not to be and it is so painful to see a new email pop up from him and have my stomach clench as I read to see just what abuse I have to deal with now. It is just not ever going to end. I want to not have to take his abuse anymore, but my kids are 3 and 5 and 18 for the youngest is 15 years away...

 
At 10:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I learned as a child that defending myself from my N mother and complicit father made the situation much worse. And really, how could she teach me to defend themselves from abuse or bullying from others without showcasing herself as a huge hypocrite? So she encouraged me not to defend myself from anyone.

Until very recently my gut level instinct was not to defend myself from harm. It's taken time, distance from my FOO, and the support of my H to rid myself of that idiotic, dangerous instinct.

I look back on my life (I'm in my mid-40's now) and am amazed that I was not targeted by other Ns and bullies more than I was. I was so naive and trusting and giving. It was my response to a horrible mother: Mom abuses me and she's a wonderful mother and person, (and Dad thinks what she does is okay) so anyone who does 'bad' things isn't really bad - just misunderstood.

That's one reason my faith in God is so great. He must have been protecting me, because no person ever did, and I sure didn't.

--A

 
At 12:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, I think THIS is the most freeing post for me I've ever read here.

On so many levels this is just exactly the clarity and truth that is needed.

As for those teachers that say there are always two sides, it's that same old "it takes two to tango" BULLSHIT! This was a perfect example of exactly how our society loves to blame the victim. No wonder N's get away with this in adult life!!

My austitic son had a bully once that was hitting and punching him at every opportunity. He never fought back...not one hit, nothing. His disorder made him so defenseless that he didn't really "get" the full cruelty of what was happening to him. And in one instance both kids were punished even though the bully was sitting on top of my son, was twice my sons size, my son could not breathe and nearly passed out and did not strike back. I put a stop to that "both kids are at fault" business that very day.

That kid has a file on him for fighting as thick as War and Peace and my son had never been in any trouble not even for talking in class, yet this is the logic.

I am seeing how in all our society we keep doing this to victims. No wonder N's get away with it as adults!!

And I'm going to fess up here. I used to be a social worker. There was a time when I would have told you in all conviction that anyone and everyone could be redeemed and deserved to have that chance. THAT was before I became the victim of a sociopath. NO there are NOT always two sides. I wonder why I could see this FOR others though and not for myself till it happened to me. There's that lack of self reliance then!

Yes, there are some people out there who are simply predators and beyond any consideration. It's simply a cold hard fact and we don't want to face it. It goes against what is "kind to believe in" but, some things in this world are so repugnant that to not fight back against them and speak out against them is as wrong as what these abusers are doing.

The lessons I've learned from this are hard, hurtful and costly. I am glad I learned them though. Maybe by speaking out as relentlessly as I intend to from now on, someone can be saved from the hellishness these N's cause. That's self reliance. It's listening to what I KNOW and acting on it without wavering. Not once.

I cannot tell you how hard my abuser has fought to discredit me in every way possible and it almost worked to silence me for a while. I have bucked right back up though. I see how pathetic he is and how he will end up telling on himself in the end. I have all confidence that one day I will be vindicated. I hope the bystanders can live with themselves. I sure couldn't if I were them because not even at my MOST helpful as a social worker did I swallow the kind of shit he is now dishing out to them and they are believing. Not one time.

Kathy, I wonder sometimes how you got so concise and clear about what these N's are. Whatever it was that lead you to this, I'm thankful that you are speaking out here!!! AMAZING post. I have to smile because N's just HATE exposure. I love it!!

 
At 6:53 PM, Blogger Stormchild said...

Much of the gutlessness you're deploring here [brava! Go for it!] comes down to plain old fashioned moral cowardice.

If the spineless school administrators stood up for the unpopular kid who was being pounded into pulp, the popular kids' parents might not like it. And we wouldn't want that to happen, now would we? Goodness no! They might Say Something Nasty at the next PTA meeting...

It sickens me that so many supposed adults are much more concerned about losing the nonexistent approval of thugs and bullies than they are about limiting the damage those same thugs and bullies are doing to them, to their colleagues, to their OWN CHILDREN. To their entire world!

Oh... but you can't SAY anything about THAAAAATTT... they might not LIIIIIIKE it.

God give me patience!

Thank you Kathy for saying this... it SO needs to be said.

 
At 9:24 PM, Anonymous Barbara said...

I got this book and had to wait because its out of print, until a back order could be found.

Along with Lundy Bancroft this book was one of the MOST validating, incisive things I read.

You are right - the perversity is endless. As a child and victim of Ns I am now horrified when I realize what I put up with because I didn't know until later in life it WAS perverse!

 
At 2:17 AM, Blogger Kathy said...

A, What does that say about the children he doesn't protect?

 
At 8:24 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A, What does that say about the children he doesn't protect?

I'm not implying that God favors me or protected me preferentially. I was also a child that he didn't protect. But though God didn't always protect me, I feel that He did protect me sometimes.

How come He didn't protect me all the time? Because people can do things that God doesn't want them to do. God doesn't stop us because He gave us free will. He wants us to use His gift for good, but we can choose to use it selfishly. He won't invalidate the free will of anyone. Not even of an evil person. Because God is not a narcissist. Satan is.

I know my explanation is not complete (what about illness, fire, floods, earthquakes..?) I am no theologian, but I have asked a lot of difficult questions and gotten a lot of difficult (but loving and logical) answers on my road to faith. My Christian hero is C.S. Lewis (especially his 'Mere Christianity'), if anyone wants to read more about this kind of thing.
--A

 
At 12:23 PM, Blogger Billy said...

I agree with all of this. Concerning defending yourself, the tricky part is exactly *how* to best defend yourself. You want to defend yourself in a mature, objective, rational fashion. Sometimes that may involve no confrontation at all--just clever avoidance and/or withdrawal. The key is not to react subjectively to the N or bring yourself down to his level. Easier said than done, of course.

"Much of the gutlessness you're deploring here...comes down to plain old fashioned moral cowardice."

Yep! And also just plain laziness. It takes a lot of effort to do what's right, and most people would just rather not deal with it. Besides, laziness pays immediate dividends. :P

 
At 12:23 PM, Blogger Billy said...

I agree with all of this. Concerning defending yourself, the tricky part is exactly *how* to best defend yourself. You want to defend yourself in a mature, objective, rational fashion. Sometimes that may involve no confrontation at all--just clever avoidance and/or withdrawal. The key is not to react subjectively to the N or bring yourself down to his level. Easier said than done, of course.

"Much of the gutlessness you're deploring here...comes down to plain old fashioned moral cowardice."

Yep! And also just plain laziness. It takes a lot of effort to do what's right, and most people would just rather not deal with it. Besides, laziness pays immediate dividends. :P

 
At 12:24 PM, Blogger Billy said...

Please forgive the possible double post. I'm not sure if my first attempt went through.

----------------
I agree with all of this. Concerning defending yourself, the tricky part is exactly *how* to best defend yourself. You want to defend yourself in a mature, objective, rational fashion. Sometimes that may involve no confrontation at all--just clever avoidance and/or withdrawal. The key is not to react subjectively to the N or bring yourself down to his level. Easier said than done, of course.

"Much of the gutlessness you're deploring here...comes down to plain old fashioned moral cowardice."

Yep! And also just plain laziness. It takes a lot of effort to do what's right, and most people would just rather not deal with it. Besides, laziness pays immediate dividends. :P

 
At 2:15 PM, Blogger Kathy said...

But it does imply that. I think if you explained, it would be clear that you don't mean to claim that God plays favorites and that you're one of his favorites. But without any further qualification, that's what it says.

The part about free will is beside the point. The question wasn't, "Why doesn't God prevent people from doing bad things to others?" The question is "Why doesn't God protect the innocent and defenseless from bad people?" I don't think people asking this question would say that God should take away free will, but they do ask a question that begs to be asked: why doesn't God help the victim? Why doesn't he have the cavalry arrive at the crucial moment? Why doesn't he bring a human protector into that child's life? And, as you yourself mentioned, there are many disasters that are not the free-will act of any human being, like earthquakes. Why does God save one person and deny the next person's prayers to be at least allowed to die swiftly, not after 10 days in hell of of being buried alive in terrible pain and suffering?

These are serious, legitimate questions. It began with the notion of the "chosen people" way back - God plays favorites. When one person crawls out from under the wreckage of his home claiming that God spared him from the tornado, the person next door whose child is dead doesn't think much of that man's God.

 
At 2:31 PM, Blogger Kathy said...

Billy,

"You want to defend yourself in a mature, objective, rational fashion. Sometimes that may involve no confrontation at all--just clever avoidance and/or withdrawal. The key is not to react subjectively to the N or bring yourself down to his level. Easier said than done, of course."

It just occured to me that this is a common theme among the victims of narcissists. You don't hear people under other kinds of attack talking this way though.

I bet the reason for it is that we see the utterly degrading childishness the narcisssist reverts to. It's totally off-putting. So, we want to fight back but in a rational, dignified way that shows we have some self respect.

Even when the other party to such a conflict is not a narcissist (say that it's just a spoiled brat throwing a temper tantrum), we immediately think this way - how to engage without descending to that level ourselves?

When it's just a cantankerous child, by taking a deep breath and counting to ten we can do so. But it's harder, much harder with the irational and malicious narcissist. No question for the brain-dead to deal with. No snap answers. You do have to think about how to defend yourself and back the narc off without degrading yourself in the process.

Because it's neither right nor smart to just let them get away with it.

 
At 2:46 PM, Blogger Kathy said...

PS Billy. What you said about just avoiding an abuser is true too. When that person isn't in your household or close by in your place of work, you can usually protect yourself like you would from a lose tiger - by just staying away.

Imagine if people took the warning signs seriously and immediately distanced themselves from potential friends and lovers who exhibited predatory behaviors?

If narcissists and psychopaths found it hard to get close to anyone, because the moment they let Mr. Hyde slip out every friend or lover abononned them the next day, they would die of thirst.

Except for the occassional narc who rises to a position of power over others beneath him, the damage narcs do is mainly to those they've conned their way in close to. Plus their own children, who are trapped.

 
At 4:54 PM, Blogger Billy said...

Kathy,

"You do have to think about how to defend yourself and back the narc off without degrading yourself in the process."

Yes. You basically said that in one of your previous blogs--something like not letting your behavior/decisions be governed by the primitive, frontal lobe of your brain.

"you can usually protect yourself like you would from a lose tiger - by just staying away."

And often that's the most profitable route to boot, because you don't waste a lot of valuable resources. And of course, narcissists are very skilled at their own game, so you'll never beat them at it. Furthermore, what's a kid supposed to do when their bully is twice their size? Either find some way to get out of there (like skipping class, which you mentioned) or enlist the help of some friends/others, I suppose.

 
At 9:51 PM, Anonymous CZBZ said...

Thank you, Kathy!

 
At 10:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here is how I think:

1.) Negative rights: the right NOT to be aggressed against, as opposed to a positive "right", which is a claim at someone else's expense. Rarely are positive rights justified, no matter what politicians of either party may claim. The right of an infant to be cared for is such an example of a positive right that is justified.

2.) Whoever aggresses against someone is violating their negative rights and as such is giving up their own claim to these rights by their very actions.

3.) There is no such thing as a free lunch. Those self righteous do gooders need to be reminded that somebody always has to pay, eventually. At first, it is the victim due to their interference but eventually everyone does due to the insidious corruption generated.

-Cassandra

 
At 12:38 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This post is brilliant. Thank you.

-- The Happy Feminist

 

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