Tuesday, January 01, 2008

No Turning Back

You keep trying to get through to your narcissist. You just can't accept it that you can't reach them. Stubbornly, you keep trying.

That's partly because you don't know half of what they've done to you behind your back.

When you finally give up, your only regret is that you feel like an utter fool for having fled into denial where you kept trying for so long. You see that you should have known they are a hopeless case.

This is because a narcissist's past has a hold on them, a hold much stronger than you can ever get. To understand, just put yourself in their shoes.

Imagine that you're a malignant narcissist. You have gone around telling people terrible lies about others, even about the members of your own immediate family. You say your sister or brother is violent and has often beaten you. You say that he or she pushes drugs or embezzles or whatever.

Then this family member, trying to reach you while you are in deep depression, somehow gets you in for counseling. You think you want to change. To turn your life around. Wouldn't it be wonderful! Your family loves you and that love is a very powerful pull on you.

But what's the next thing you think?

You think what will happen when people you've told those lies to see you with this brother or sister, getting alone just fine.

How are you going to explain that? Here is someone you say tried to kill you, and you're on friendly terms with him or her? Here is someone that sleazy, and you socialize with him or her?

What will people think?

What are you going to say when people ask you if that brother or sister is still beating you? Or if they ask you whether he or she is still pushing drugs? Or if they ask you how he or she has managed to stay out of jail?

What are you going to do? Are you going to stay clean and admit that it was all a lie? Can you even BE clean without repairing the damage you did to that family member's good name?

You're going to continue living the old lie, aren't you? In other words, you're not going to change. Theoretically you could. But you can't. Not really. There are things people can do that you just do not repent.

Like Macbeth, you pass a point beyond which there is no turning back.

Even the secret things that no one else will ever know stand as a demon at the escape hatch. For, to change, you'd have to know what you did and see these despicable deeds for what they are. You'd have to stop repressing awareness of them. Because you can't change if you disown what you are changing FROM.

That is, you'd have to see YOURSELF when you look in a mirror. Could you? And know how cruelly you had exploited and treated others all your life? Know that you had tortured that innocent animal just for kicks? Know that you had eviscerated that young man who made the mistake of loving you? Know that you had abused and psychologically injured your own children by denying them love? Know that you had destroyed someone's career and ruined their life or perhaps even driven them to suicide that way?

People who did NOTHING to you! People who trusted you! People who loved you! You did things like this to FRIENDS!

The spirit in which such things are done is unmistakable. These are the kinds of things malignant narcissists do = not the normal bad things normal people do.

If you had done such things would you ever be able to fess up? I don't think so. You're not going to do that, are you? You're going to stay nice and safe there beyond the Looking Glass.

This is why the prognosis for NPD is so poor. Narcissists have become what they are to cope with what they have done. It's adaptive. It keeps them from killing themselves.

But don't take my word for it, or anyone's. Keep trying to get through to your narcissist. Just do face facts. But keep trying till you give up.

It is much better to feel like a fool who banged their head against a brick wall than to know you gave up while you had one bit of hope.

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At 5:32 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The terrible lies they tell about you to family, your children, friends and people they work with are devostating. Believe me, after spending 27 years of my life with an N. partner, in the meantime I know all about it.

They behave like a pimp to you. They use you in public, as they don't have a backbone and are insecure (very). As a partner you cover their as, unknowingly. When they have no need for you they mistreat you. Everytime after we went to a social event, important for him, with "important" (read very wealthy and "famous") people, my partner would go into a rage, starting in the car. I had no idea what I had done wrong. Now I know ... nothing... I was just me and people had sympathy for me. We all than had a good time and he couldn't stand that. I had done for him what he needed me for. In this way he could stay away from everybody, no confrontation, I did the job for him!

He told lies about me, but he told me, lies about other people / friends. So in this way, if we than would meet, we didn't really talk with eachother because I would think of his words and similtaniously they did as well.. of course. In this way he controlled everyone.

After divorce, some people over time came to me and told me the horrible stories he had spread about me. But as I wasn't there anymore, they find out that he was acting "strange" and yes, I was still the same person. So something didn't fit to other people and some start wondering and came to the conclusion that it was him who couldn't be trusted.

And no there is no turning back for him, but neither for an partner. Once you find out, you can't stay, you have to move. It's the obligation you have to yourself.

And than, the way you're marriage was, you're divorce will be. Long, exhausting as he loves the fight and he didn't and doesn't want you to live happy. So he will do everything to be in your way. Although he allready has a new partner, he must destroy me and tries to get his stories wright about me. And as he is not succeeding in that, the fight from his side gets even worse.

To all of you in divorce with such a man or woman, I can only say, be brave and stick to you're own feelings and intuition, make you're own plan and look clear of what he is, its hard, but will help you letting go emotianally. After that nothing is left for such a man. The only feeling left is purily bussiness-wise. Whatever comes out of it, they have to stick with themselves, we can move on.

At 2:33 PM, Blogger sonicido said...

Hi anonymous.
My ex was even sneakier. He did not say outright lies. He simply implies untruths.
He is the KING of implication.
This gives him even more ways to say, "I didn't SAY that."
And he didn't.

So it leaves everyone standing with their mouths hanging open-after all, we are the ones at fault for drawing a conclusion that he never said at all.

I will give you an example:

After I left him, for the 7 years since, he has driven junk cars and sat in his 3 churches that he monopolizes (so I won't have one to go to) and he raises his hand during prayer time, crying and asking for prayers for his FINANCES. He dresses crappy and drives a junk car that NO ONE in the church would be seen in.
His churchy friends think, "Huh, let's see...nine kids, he has 100K a year job..20 years of marriage...she must have CLEANED HIS CLOCK!! Our poor brother in the Lord!"
Now, he never SAID that I got anything from the divorce.
(I did not get a DIME as he coerced me to sign a decree that didn't even give me child support while I took care of 8 of the children and he continued in his career).

He takes them all to church every Sunday so that they get the visual the he is the primary care-taker. But he works 50-70 hours a week, while I take care of them with no support. We have been on food stamps since 2004.

The picture he paints, causes most of his fellowship to shun me, treat my children badly, and gossip about us behind our backs. I have had two school administrations make it unbearable for my children, and had to move them to a third school and home school some to build their confidence back up.

He has also asked for prayers for me because I have, "turned her life over to Satan; gone off the deep end"...etc...- as though he is concerned for his so concerned "children's mother" that he would kindly ask for prayers on her behalf.
Imagine that!

At 6:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Sonicido,

Sorry, but I really start laughing. It's such a party of regognision. The creep(s)!

True, it is not only lies, on top op that they twist your head, because every time they are wright, certain things they didn't say, litarly, but with normal people one would assume it would be that way and that would be correct. So..they really do know what they say, wright? Otherwise they couldn't correct you. Smart guys! (In a way, pfff)

But how on earth is it possible that he doesn't have to pay? Whatever decree one would sign over here (that is in the Netherlands), he has to pay childsupport no matter what and he wouldn't get away with no support for the wife with so many kids to feed, no way! Can't you go to court after all and change it??? Over here there is allways the possibillity to ask to change these things true court. It's unhuman what is done to you..eh oh, yes, N.! They are unhuman and sometimes I have the feeling that next to this love for only themselves, there is only 1 second love and that is .. money!

By all means.... you are brave and strong!!!!

Well he is very wrong, you're one of the angels.

He is the devil preaching to lambs! Lord have mercy!

jt, B.

At 5:41 AM, Blogger Kathy said...

"But how on earth is it possible that he doesn't have to pay? Whatever decree one would sign over here (that is in the Netherlands), he has to pay childsupport no matter what and he wouldn't get away with no support for the wife with so many kids to feed, no way!"

I'm sure others can tell you more about this than I can, but part of the reason they sometimes get away with this is because they hide their wealth and then claim they are too poor to pay child support. That can be gotten away with easier here because we do not allow the government to keep such close tabs on us (and our assets) as yours does.

For example, we don't have to report our plce of residence to the goverenment every time we move. (Hence voter fraud is easier to get away with here.) So, so "deatbeat" fathers just move to another state where no one can find them. We do not allow a national ID card. All these things allow "deadbeat" fathers to get away with it.

The tendency has been to just give the mother welfare instead to pursue the father to pay.

So, the child-support laws are generally OK, but it's other aspects of our system that allow people to cheat.

At 7:09 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh.. I see. Thanks for your explanation, Kathy.

Over here, many man did the same over a certain period of time. In the meantime the laws have been changed, and it is very difficult for men to cheat nowadays. But the ones who really want, will find a way. No doubt. If he would get away with it at first and afterwards it turnes out that he cheated, one can go to court and it will be changed after all. So..

Where ever they will reside in Europe, one has to register. There are agreements between the countries, so even if a man would move to..., he would be nailed in the end.

My ex N. tried to push me to sign a decree before the divorce. I refused, he raged, was mean, cried, went to one of his girlfriends with sad stories, but I never signed. I knew deep down and I don't no why or how, that that was the one thing, I should never do.

In the meantime I'am still having battles in court because an N. likes the fight and can't stand he didn't win so far.

jt. B

At 11:04 AM, Blogger sonicido said...

What happened to me, was this:
We had this great life in the Midwest. Victorian house, 10 acres, horses, my own perennial gardens that I made my own money from; I canned, raised chickens, and had a HUGE support group of friends, churches, family, etc... whom he could not easily convince in his favor (at the time, I did not know that he would even try). It seemed a charmed life and many envied me. Some of my friend's husbands would ask mine how he deserved such a good wife; and how could they get theirs to be like his?
I think this had a lot to do with, the events that have taken place this last ten years.

Backing up to twenty-three years ago, when he stopped excessive drinking, we had 5 great years following. Since the first five years of marriage ('80-85) were totally miserable with him, I made my life joyful through motherhood. After all, he didn't beat me, and I didn't know anyone who had a better marriage than the one I now had.

We had 3 children when he quit excessive drinking. I wanted a large family because now that he wasn't an alcoholic. We had a nice life filled with peaceful. Our children were soul-mates; we had a great church "family"; life was good. I was homeschooling; gardened for food and profit; the girls and I showed horses. It was a beautiful lifestyle. We were a hub of activity in the community and every weekend our house was full of friends. But there was evil lurking in the midst.

Now that I look back, I see that the more I succeeded at things, the harder he tried to undo me. I overcame all the obstacles that he threw at me-I was thinking I was being the good christian wife, and had no clue that he was constantly setting me up to fail. I accepted out "budget" and did not question finances while he was stashing money, and proclaiming each pay check, that after paying "all the bills", we were, "broke". I formed a visual that things cost more than I even had a clue about.

I was so busy with all the babies, homeschooling, horses, and my little farm, that I never put it together. Also, I did not equate someone who: laid on their face and prayed for an hour at a time, taught Sunday school class, prayed with the children, and had "cleaned up" their act so well...to a deceiving liar. :(

I did not know what a narcissist was, and certainly did not know how religion is a perfect tool for them. People like David Koresch happened to other people, in "other" religions.

I also recently learned from our LPC that if an alcoholic quits drinking, if they do not get counseling, they WILL replace the booze with something else. He replaced his drive to drink with stashing money and making me his personal project.

When we outgrew our our home twelve years ago. Our oldest was sleeping on a hall-way floor. He refused to build on to an "old" house. He said we could not afford a loan payment for an addition, but I have proof NOW that we DID have the money, and he was making FOUR house payments a month. No wonder we were "broke"!

He bribed me to move to the SW, saying he would make more money, and build a house larger than we really needed. He even let me design it and had an architect friend draw it up to convince me.

Supernatural events also set me up. Someday, I'll write about those. I took the bribe thinking it would be great to be close to my old friends again, as we lived in the SW before, and the kids could be outside year round.

Through his expert deceptions, we ended up in a trailer that was too small, in the middle of nowhere and "broke" from the move.
All that I was, all that we had as a family, was gone. For the first time ever, I had children fighting and being disrespectful to me. It was my fault, because I was the one who insisted on more room.

In '99 I got a job at an Airline so our oldest kids could at least fly home for visits. Then I left him but continued to care for all the children.
I took the blame, as I yet did not know the picture as I do now; I just knew something was really "wrong". I thought I had failed everyone because I was the one who pushed for "more room"; but, I also knew he had no intention of trying to make our lives even close to what we had.

It took three years after leaving before I even BEGAN to understand that he had defrauded me for years. A nurse friend of mine explained that I was dealing with a sociopath in 2003. This got me to studying behavior traits.
I realized that I signed the decree because HE gave me no choice, but at the time I signed it, I saw it as no choice because of ME. I had no attorney, no hearing. Even though the decree defrauded me, if he had held up the little bit that it Orders him, it would have been bearable financially. However, he denied me even that, and I am now over $80K in debt. And who is going to force him to uphold the decree?

I have spent since 2003 seeking modification and exposure. The state does not do modifications. I applied and recieved food stamps as the state determined that 6 were living with me in 2004. The state attorney for child support got nowhere because his attorney used technecalities to delay. I went to college (2004-2006) earned a 3.65 grade average (nights) while homeschooling 4 children who were driven out of their schools because of him. I hired an attorney with the student loan the end of 2005.

The attorney I have had this last 2 years cost me $7,000 plus interest, and ended up enabling him! I fired her because I found out that she had been talking to him, and believing his lies. This may be why she constantly delayed my hearings.

I have a hearing set soon for 8 hours. If I can not find a competent attorney for it, I will go myself as I have a right to modification every 2 years and have yet to be heard about that. It has been 7 years since the decree!
If I am not "heard" then I'm not sure what I will do. However, I like the boiling oil idea >:()

I hope that I never meet an attorney at a social gathering, because I will probably ruin their fun. I know there are some good ones out there, but our system has been ruined because of them, and their greed.

At 5:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Sonicido,

I have read you're story, it gave me the shiffers.

But there are a few things very similair.

The relation of alcohol and the man. Same over here.

The first years were terrible, same over here. I was pregnangt before marriage, but we allready lived officially 4 years together. We married (not that I really wanted that). Before that I had left him twice!!!!!

He lost his company very soon! I had a good job, so I earned our money for many years, our 2nd child was born.

He had many ideas and than earned suddenly a lot of money... I gave up my job (stupid, stupid) and started working together with him. Trusted him. Thought it would be for our future.
If I look back now, I did the work, HE did hardly anything, but destroying ME. The same as with you!

We lived in huge houses. Family-life was like you described.

Similarity: it seems that they hook up with the same kind of women worlwide. Hard working, charming, warm, doing our very best in full convidence, loving, caring. As a friend jalously once said to me, HE has it all!! a beautifull caring wife and wonderfull, goodlooking kids, all healthy, how happy can one be! Life is very kind to him.

Strange thing however, whatever he or I earned, we were allways broke somehow. I find out later, that he let me pay (because there was not enough money....), but had his own bankaccounts!!!!! I never saw these, but I know now. I, of course, ended with a zero bank account!

I was working my bud off, while he was driving in very expensive cars, doing "bussiness", but in the meantime he had several girlfriends, of which one, during the whole periode of my marriage and that is 23 years! She still will be there! One can be very busy and very tired when you come home, don't you think? I thought he worked so hard. :( the poor man!

I had never heard about narcicism untill a friend of mine put me behind the internet 2 years ago. Suddenly everything fell into place. I'am abused from the first minute till the last and nothing was real. he hit me and my kids "only" a few times. ( that could have been worse ). I felt I was in the wrong movie, but I realized this had been my life, no movie.

Attorney: I have a very young one. She is great and she is coached by a senior attorney (women as well), wo dealt with NPD on several occasions, so she knows how to handle it. This senior attorney, however, quit, because the last time, her family was threatened by an N. It had been a nightmare and as she has little children, she is not in the position to do that again at this time being. But she knows the facts. Lucky me...

So there are attorneys who are specialised or at least now what NPD means. So, no greed.

I spent in the meantime around the same amount you did,(within a year) but now I can get the government to pay the costs for the coming sessions, which will be a relieve. Because, although he should pay, he doesn't. But the one who is laughing last, is laughing best and I'am convinced I will be the one.

Oh...I hope and will cross my fingers that you will find the wright attorney. Otherwise, go for it, whatever!

I will think of you!

jt. B.


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