Friday, December 14, 2007

The Sacred Right of Self-Defense & Self-Preservation

When you tell someone that it is a sin for them to yell back or hit back or whatever if someone is attacking them, what are you saying?

I wish the holier-than-thou control freaks who like to exert control over others by restraining them at every turn, would put themselves in the victim's shoes just once.

When you tell a victim that this is what God wants, you are telling them that God put them here to take abuse from anyone who dishes it out.

Yes, you are. He put them here, omniscient and knowing this would happen, stands by allowing it to happen, and commanding victims not to lift a hand or raise a voice in anger to defend themselves. So he certainly didn't put them here to take care of themselves. To the contrary, he demands that they just take abuse, so that's what he put them here for.

Not a good way to get them to love your God.

Huh? Would you tell them they must let that bully kick their automobile? Never, right? Because an automobile is a thing of value.

Let the brain-dead think the next thought themselves. I won't state the obvious.

If you tell the wolves that God put sheep here to feed them, they love God. He is the God of the wolves. But the sheep don't like him, because he ain't the God of the sheep.

Just one example of how hypocrites actually give their God a bad name with all their thoughtless babbling about him when they use him as a schtick to control others.

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At 3:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kathy, I guess you also have to defend your blog against infiltration of narcissists.
I like to ask you; how do you deal with this?
I never read a typical reaction on your site of an N, so I guess you delete those or store them somewhere apart.
If this is the case maybe it's educating to publish some of these examples under a special topic?
I know this can be painfull and confusing for victims so I'll sure respect and understand your choice not to do this if you donn't want to.
But if you have some good examples it could be very educating stuff from the 'masters' themselves.
I sure like to read some but in any case like to know how you deal with this and why.

greetings, Gerard

At 5:17 PM, Blogger Kathy said...

Instructive? I really don't see how there could be anything instructive about a display of how irrationally narcissists argue.

Growing up in a home with a narcissistic father (who picked a fight every chance he got) has made me hate arguing. People who argue just to argue I have no time for. I just cut them off. Life is too short.

Besides, I figure that everyone with a narcissist in their life already knows how N's use irrationality as a debating tactic. And they know how infuriating it is to try to get a message through that foghorn.

Me? i don't even try. I don't argue with an N. Ever.

Actually, very few show up here - I'd say only about one a month. Of course that may be because they see that I don't mess with them here.

Some narcissists have posted comments that I did publish, by the way.

Most of those I reject attack a commenter who expresses painful emotion, saying such things as that he or she is the crazy one and just imagining ... and blah, blah, blah. That's predation on someone they know is now in pain. I won't allow that. This is a safe place. Nobody gets flamed on my turf. No cyberpath gets to abuse anyone here.

Almost all the rest are the usual baiters like you see on political sites. The pattern they follow is this: They state some known falsehood. The object is to entangle you in an endless argument that goes nowhere. For, if you publish their lie, you are spreading misinformation. So, if you publish it, you must answer it and disprove it.

Once these jerks get you to do that, they make it a verbal wrestling match that just goes on forever. They throw every fallacious argument in the book at you. You shoot down one accusation and they come back with another. THEY NEVER ANSWER YOUR POINTS. THEY JUST KEEP THROWING SHIT AT THE WALL TO SEE WHAT STICKS.

Result? They have effectively hijacked your blog, because they keep the other side busy doing nothing but disproving their false satements.

One after another after another.

And they quibble their heads off to be as exasperating as possible.

And then two days later the shithead is back starting all over agin by repeating like a broken record "But he lied about the WMD!" again, as if he hasn't had that lie utterly disproved a hundred times already.

I won't get side-tracked onto that merry-go-round. I'd get nothing else said. When I have already disproved something once, either here on the blog or on the main site, that's it. I never publish anything that I know to be false or to be highly suspect without answering it to make sure my readers know that.

Simon & Schuster doesn't have to publish everything you want to write, and neither do I.

Which is probably why so few N's ever try. Really. I'd say I delete only about one comment per month. (Blogger probably eats them at a higher rate than that :)

At 5:37 PM, Blogger Kathy said...

PS, I see that I kinda glanced off your question. So this should be more direct.

The kind of quibbles I get are that it takes two to tango; I am ignorant because everybody knows that narcissits are very rare - less than 1% of population and almost never women; they have feelings and a conscience, and are capable of love, and are so very very hurt by people not liking them; that NPD is a disease, not a character disorder, and so on. All of that I have debunked here and on the Main Website already.

Oh - and firsthand knowledge of what narcissists say and do doesn't count. Only PhD book learning and interviewing these pathological liars on your couch qualify you claim you know anything and makes you credible. Though I have gone out of my way to make it clear that I am no authority on the subject, I know what I know, and firsthand knowledge is valid. It's time the professionals got some.

At 3:04 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I fully respect your opinion and on second thought believe you are right to deal with this like you do.
The most important is that it stays a safe place.
Sorry, it was a bit careless to suggest.
By your explanation I understand better and fully agree.
It wasn't my thought to give them any room to discusse but to expose their conduct.
Not possible and not desireble in the context of your blog I fully understand now.
You can not risk someone undermining the safe place your blog is, no way.
Thank you for explaning.

greetings, Gerard

At 12:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


ROFL...great comment and so true! I've done my fair share of arguing with narcissistic folks and there is no benefit for anyone. We eventually learn: there is no sense to be made of nonsense.

Censore away, kathy. I've received email threats by people who were gonna break my legs if I kept talking about narcissists. And guess what? I'm still walkin' my talk.

What benefit is there to anyone to give the N the spotlight? Their intent is to discredit anyone daring speak the truth and hopefully frighten vulnerable people with their baffoonery.



At 1:06 PM, Blogger So, what IS in a heart? said...

I don't blame people for fighting back. There's only so much BS a person can take. There's a huge difference between fighting back and "sinking to one's level". When you "become what you hate", you do it to OTHER people not just the bully/abuser.

Bleagh, I've often talked about not "sinking to someone's level", but standing up for youself is not sinking to someone's level, but sometimes "sinking" is the only language some people understand. :/

At 2:49 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was referred to your sight after starting therapy recently to try to improve my relationship with a parent who I was shocked to discover possibly has narcissism. We had thought for the last two years that it was bipolar disorder (which may be comorbid) but that the narcissism was more relevant. I had never even heard of it!
I read the literature he gave me, and I started to laugh as I realized how true the things were in the paper. The constant arguing that never goes anywhere, the fact that I could never get my point across that this parent needs to get help (until recently to some degree). The statement I read about throwing #### at the wall to see what sticks is so true! I laughed. How many times did I practice how to convince my parent of something important, like counseling, taking medication properly, etc. and walk away feeling more confused than when the conversation began!
I grew feeling like a lunatic at times because things (conversations, events, anything) would turn in ways that just didn't feel right. Oh, and the lies, God the lies. The sad thing is is that my parent feels that what they say at times is actually true! I look back at some of the things that I was told growing up, and was horrified that I had believed some of them.
I am finally learning after thirty years, as my therapist put it so well, that I have to walk around the mine field and not jump on every bomb that I find. I walked for so long with my "emergency sensors" on for things that would upset this parent, make them mad, sad, or whatever bizarre reaction that would occur, that my life was at times continual stress. I do not moan and groan now about my childhood, there were a lot of wonderful memories and things that I cherish, but I horrified to realize how much I was controlled. It is nice now to know that I can step off of the "stage" and not be a player in the illogical, twisted show that narcissism writes. I am far from totally walking around the mine fields, but I am learning so much.
I love my parent, but at the same time am having trouble putting the narcissistic side in tandem with this individual's true side. There are so many twists, turns, and explosions that I cannot rationalize it, and have given up trying. Trying to rationalize narcissism only makes those who have to face someone who has it go insane. Once I was married, away, and at the position I now am in life (thank GOD!!!!), I was over joyed to discover that life does not sit on a minefield or a box of eggs waiting at any moment to be broken: it is a beautiful world where people may not always be honest or perfect, but that I can at least have peace, a family, and enjoy the world with my emergency sensors turned off. I cannot live near or around the madness that narcissism seems to pervade. Thank you for such an enlightening blog! I am starting to learn how to face this in my own family in a much healthier manner.


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