The Joker
This is something I think no one can tell you. I know that no one could have told me. I had to see it prove true many times in many ways, battering through my denial and knocking down my illusions till I could accept it.
So I don't expect to persuade anyone of this. In fact, if you're this easy to persuade, you're too easy to persuade. But I do put it out there for you to consider. Don't listen to the talk, watch the walk. Then judge for yourself and see what you think.
Narcissists are predators.
And of course these pathological liars will never admit that. They are perfect, you know. If caught being less than perfect, they put on a poor-little-harmless-me face and try to make people think that they lash out at others in self defense.
The biggest lie narcissists tell is that they hurt people more or less accidentally, without meaning to or because they are in pain and/or feel threatened or put down or insulted, because they have these tender, tender feelings that are just so sensitive you see.
Something like that. They are vague and hard to nail down to leave themselves wiggle room - but something like that.
I know that's a lie. I know that they are not playing defense when they lash out. I know that they are playing offense. You can tell by the nature of the prey they target. Easy prey, not people who have done anything to hurt them.
In fact, I know that they have impenetrably thick skin when the person insulting them is someone they would fear retaliation from. In other words, they're just bullies.
And when they get caught, and people say, "You naughty bully, why did you do that to your spouse or child?" they whine that it was because they had such a miserable childhood and because they felt "threatened."
Yeah, right, threatened by a child.
Speaking of their feelings, where are they now? Dig deep. You will not discover one ounce of feeling in the narcissist for that child. Clue: see if you can find one bit of genuine feeling in a narcissist for anyone but him- or her-self.
And, I'm sorry, but having feeling for yourself is no virtue. Even a great white shark has feelings for itself. Feeling sorry for yourself doesn't make you human.
When narcissists abuse someone, they are never even partly in the right. Simply because it's always an act of aggression. It is a reaction to nothing but the sight of a vulnerable target of opportunity.
Therefore, no matter how imperfect their victim, he or she is wholly blameless.
Of course their delusions are threatened by any truth. Nothing wrong with that kind of threat. The fault is all theirs for deluding themselves and trying to impose their delusions on others. Their delusions are a threat to us. Something very wrong with THAT kind of threat.
One minute the bullies are getting off on eviscerating the tender feelings of a little child, and the next minute they're whining that people think they're bad.
The devil is a joker, eh?
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There was a lot of sense in the content of this topic. Even the professionals miss the cues of the predator in the narcissist.
But what Kathy wrote, "Therefore, no matter how imperfect their victim, he or she is wholly blameless." stood out like the proverbial for me, it's a current hobby horse topic for me too,so excuse me if I go off on my soapbox too much.....lol.
Our society is too fixated on the question of "Why does she stay?" As opposed to, "Why doesn't he stop abusing/battering?"
Our society places too much emphasis on the victim having some form of blame for her situation. It is ludicrous, it's like saying the bank teller deserved to get shot by the robber for being on the wrong side of the counter!
Victims are blameless, and this is such a hard concept for people in general and I'm sorry to say for many professionals to grasp.
My last counselling session I was advised to "ignore his bad behaviour, stop focussing on it and start praising his good behaviour." Say what? Oh, I get it, I'm supposed to act all adoring of him and he will then change. RATS! I said to that. My experience has proven to me the opposite works. Ignore him, tell him off like I'm his mother, discipline him, force the boundaries of the family rules on him like a child, that is what has worked for me.
But what non-sense it is for a relationship, and aren't people who are ignorant of the dynamics of a narc within a relationship quick to judge me! I'm the intolerant one! Yeah, like right, I forced him to lie, cheat, deceit, yell, hit, sulk and get angry and resentful and act like a child. Get real people and society in general. Get real is what it is all about, open your eyes.
The only people I've met who understand the predation by narcs are those who have spent time in a women's shelter. They've seen the effects that narcs have first hand, and they understand.
Great topic, thanks Kathy.
"Narcissists are predators."
Their entire thought process is ONLY to do with "What's in it for ME" and "How do *I* benefit?" And yes they are predators simply because there is NO OTHER consideration that shapes their actions towards anyone. EVER and if you even think for a second there is or if you have been lulled into thinking that you are in danger and are likely the narcissists next meal.
"Therefore, no matter how imperfect their victim, he or she is wholly blameless."
If I could put that quote in BOLD face I most certainly would. The victims need to hear this and they need to say it to themselves EVERY day till they fully believe it.
N's are SUCH experts at making you feel at fault and they get everyone around them who will listen to believe that too. They NEED that so that they can continue on with their game. To feel otherwise and to not have it reinforced by others would mean they would have to face up to the hellish pain they cause ON PURPOSE as a predator of others and we all know they aren't brave enough nor do they have the emotional tools to do that. It HAS to be our fault somehow!
Society is all too willing to help them out by believing in their poor pitiful act and placing at least half the blame onto the victims if not all of it.
Yes, I did rage back at my narcissist at the end in utter helplessness, not even self defense because by then my self was to low to be ABLE to do that thanks to the narcissists abuse. But yes I did, I never did attack and say the things HE was capable of dreaming up. Things designed to destroy your soul and yet I was called vindictive and held to account at every slight and at every turn in the road.
A narcissist always expects to be let off the hook for the most heinous behavior and cruelty but, they NEVER forget the smallest slight even when it was deserved. They cling to any such slights for years and hold them up as examples of how persecuted they are!!
The injustice of being abused and blamed for it is so damaging that I think we end up needing desperately to KNOW and be affirmed that we are not to blame. No victim sought out to harm in any way. The astounding thing is that there are so many who believe the narcissist and would blame us at all to begin with!
The narcissists "show" will include APPEARING to "improve" after they have used you up and they will enlist others to tell them "I think you really have grown since the end of that relationship so perhaps SHE/HE wasn't good for you." They GLOAT over such things since it's what they meant to be told and manipulated the new targets into saying to begin with.
They will exclaim with a sad sigh "Yes, it's sad but, I guess you are right. She wasn't really good for me but I just didnt' want to see that in her." *excuse me while I get my barf bag*
We need to be able to restore the truth to ourselves and for ourselves.
Kathy this is an incredibly valuable post!!! Sometimes I wonder if you really know how very helpful your words are to those of us struggling in the aftermath or living with one of these predators? THANK YOU again!
This one made me laugh:
"And, I'm sorry, but having feeling for yourself is no virtue. Even a great white shark has feelings for itself. Feeling sorry for yourself doesn't make you human."
That's what I have tried to tell my husband. In defense against my pointing out that he has no feelings and I don't want a relationship with someone like that, he gets tears in his eyes and protests "I have feelings! I have lots of feelings!" "Yeah," I say, "for yourself." He usually can't answer that one because we both know it's true.
I have seen mine cry so hysterically that it almost seems like someone is going to have to get him oxygen--but it is over something that he made up! When I have pointed out a couple of these times (he must have forgotten I was aware of the contradictory detail), he says, "Oh, yeah. You're right," and one time he hung his head for like 1 second for show, and the other time he didn't even bother. They are not ashamed to be caught lying or being a dramatic hypocrite. I wonder what acting method he had to use--what he had to imagine to turn on the waterworks. Himself getting injured, I bet.
"I have seen mine cry so hysterically that it almost seems like someone is going to have to get him oxygen--but it is over something that he made up!"
Oh, yes. and
"I can't beLIEVE you'd think I'd do that to you!" also said while crying "I'm trying so hard, and you are NEVER proud of me."
The crying into your shoes while not just lying but, over something which is entirely a fantasy is a shocking thing to see someone be able to do. Perhaps he should've gone to Julliard? Sometimes now I wish I'd stood up and thrown roses while shouting *BRAVO!* but, he'd have taken THAT as an indication of his greatness instead of a barb.
With the evidence before you of what they are doing it's hard not to feel queasy. The structure of their thinking is disturbing when you know exactly what you are witnessing.
When mine said "You are never proud of me!" he repeated it with the earnestness of a small child. And I believe he felt I should be proud of him in that moment. For what?
For having new targets that he had been working SO VERY hard to impress for five months while he was being more and more cruel to me.
You see. THAT made him feel good about himself ALL that attention, and THEY were telling him how "good" he was, and how proud *he was really working that I'm so disadvantaged poor me thing but, I will help you all anyway because you are so wonderful*
so I should be falling for it too even though with the new targets in place I was being abused more intensely than ever. Literally, he saw NO DIFFERENCE between them and me as human beings. THEY were giving him glowing feedback so why wasn't I? I was utterly interchangeable with them but, they were not being abused. He actually felt that because his mirroring and act was working on THEM that I should follow suit. I was being punished for NOT lying along with him to myself.
They try and twist everything into place so that even if they are crying in front of you so "hysterically you think they might need oxygen" *perfect* while fabricating the whole thing, YOU are the bad one who is to blame for not believing the "act"
Especially if the N has someone else around him who DOES fall for it.
What he meant by that was that he intended to keep me as supply while having the new supply too but, he wanted to keep acting exactly as he had been. Since I wouldn't go along with being more and more cruelly treated by being proud of him for being "nice" to others so intensely and "trying so hard" at the new act, then he might have to give up MY supply. I wasn't going along with the game! He had intended to have both! Therefore, I am being mean to him for having my own expectations to be treated fairly OR to have any amends made to me. That wasn't how the new "story" was supposed to go! *stamps little foot!!* and says "You are NEVER proud of ME!*
It's N speak again. Wish I'd not ever learned to decipher it. Learning Chinese would've been easier and far more worthwhile!
Thanks Marisol. Yes, I've seen the weeping hysterically play over totally fabricated stories. What's even sicker is that they plan this too. It's all been done before with others before you and I and will be done again. I think this is what makes us so upset when they pull this with other people who DO believe it. Didn't we once?? But this time when they do it? They are talking about US! It's part of the SMEAR and how could they be lying the new targets think!?! They are SO hurt! SO sincere! Poor N! JUST what they expect to have happen is exactly what the new targets will do while we are being discarded in the meanest possible way.
There is no low, too low for the narcissist to sink to if he gets his way out of it.
"Don't listen to the talk, watch the walk."
That says it in a nutshell! If you do that, you'll never be fooled by a narcissist. In practice, it can be hard to do, though, especially if the person is prominent and has a good reputation.
This is the first time (well, second) I've ever tried to post on this site, and I have a few other basic comments not directly related to the article.
Concerning malignant narcissists:
1) Their motto seems to be: "If you can't say something mean or nasty, don't say anything at all!"
2) When you're around them, truly "no good deed goes unpunished."
3) I read somewhere that your pain is invisible to a narcissist, or if pointed out, of no consequence. Similarly, I think the same holds true for his faults. His faults are invisible to him. And if you point them out, they're of no consequence, because he has such "tender" feelings for himself.
4) One way I've found to recognize narcissists is the way they "cut people off." I knew one girl who would just walk out of jobs and give zero notice. And I had a best friend (or so I thought) who would just ignore people (sometimes permanently) when she got upset with them. Sure enough, both of these people eventually ended up doing the same thing to me. If you hang around long enough, you're going to get the same venom they've spewed at others!
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