Saturday, January 05, 2008

Narcissist Sympathizers

This post is inspired by this comment, which ends thus:

...I'm thinking in particular of one couple, my "best fried" of 20 years and her husband, who chose to remain friends with my narcissistic ex and to lie to me about it even after being told about the abuse and even after telling me that they believed everything I said about the abuse that occurred.

My "friend" gave a long speech about how she and her husband accept all of their friends, regardless of their flaws, and chose to be there for my ex because when a friend asks for their help, they provide it. I can't begin to convey the holier-than-thou tone that permeated that speech, but it struck me that the line between holier-than-thou and grandiose, if there is a line at all, is very, very slim.

I hear you. I note how this slick-talking "friend" transubstantiates deeds into mere "flaws." And I ask these "friends," Since when is it good to be friendly with bad people? Since when is winking at their wrongdoing a virtue?

Perhaps someone can quote chapter and verse in the comments, because holier-than-thous really deserve to have their religion's true teachings show what frauds their twisting of religious doctrine makes them. In the New Testament, in Revelations, I believe, in one of the letters to the churches, some holier-than-thou Christians are read the riot act for that very same pretense.

The author unloads both barrels at them with this truth: "Good people are not lukewarm toward evil" it says.

Cowards are.

Loving good is hating evil. And vice versa. Love is an attraction; hate a repulsion. But that is too simple for complex people to understand.

Now I am not saying that we must reject everyone not perfect, for then we would reject everyone, including ourselves. But decent people need no instruction. There is a point at which behavior becomes predatory and malicious - a point at which one is morally obligated to separate themselves from that person.

You thus take away a bad actor's safety in numbers. You show disapproval. You discourage others from behaving the same way. You comfort the victim by showing him or her that the pain caused them by the bad guy matters to you.

Is any of that evil?

It's just a way of discouraging the harm the bad guy is doing others by showing that you want nothing to do with someone who hurts others like that.

Where is the sin in that, pray tell? Sounds like fine, upstanding conduct to me.

Jesus of Nazareth spoke of this when he said that "indecent conduct" is a special case and justification for divorce even. At the time, the terms "indecent" or "lewd" conduct simply meant "lowdown" or "despicable" conduct of any sort.

And that statement of his, qualifying his disapproval of divorce, is just common sense.

Why? Let's say you are married to a Mafia boss. Is it right for you live in his big fancy house, being waited on by his hired staff? Is it right for you to PROFIT from the crimes he commits and ther damage he does to people?

To the contrary: it is immoral for you not to divorce him when you find out what he is.

The same people who make a virtue of "accepting" abusive narcissists, relentlessly persecute anyone for any hint of racism or sexism. THAT they won't tolerate. They wouldn't DREAM of tolerating anything politically incorrect like that.

But though they know and believe that the narcissist has brutally abused you, they see no reason to show any disapproval of that.

Hmmm. Whom do they think they're fooling?

They make nothing of that narcissist's abuse of you. They countenance it.

If instead they rejected the narcissist, they would be doing the one small thing they could to get on the right side, the victim's side.

But they abandon the victim and smile in the abuser's face.

Not so holy as they pretend.

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At 12:26 AM, Blogger sonicido said...


This makes my skin peel.

This is EXACTLY why Hitler got away with his shit for how many years and how many million people?

If society pounced on these people, and did to them what they do to their victims...the MINUTE they pull anything...and I mean ANYTHING AT ALL...
If we could teach people to take IMMEDIATE ACTION...

Not only would the Narcissists not have a handle on the world, but the world would be able to weed out the true Narcissists from, those who happen to pull a stupid narc stunt without really realizing it.

For instance, in the movie, "Water Horse", the Officer who first appeared to be an "N" was cut short by the Leading Lady. Since he wasn't truly an "N", we got to see that he was just acting out a popular "N" behavior trait. It didn't work, because of the Leading Lady. And rather than cook up more evil, he suddenly did a 180 and came to the rescue, thus proving that he was not a true narcissist. I have seen this happen in real life so whoever wrote that script, may have seen it happen also.

We really need to educate everyone we can about "N" behavior traits. Encourage dowsing the bully behavior with ICE water and making it clear that this behavior just exiled them from our lives. Completely.

Of course, this is contrary to "turning the other cheek", and handing over our shirt also, when our coat is requested, by our enemy.

This is where examination of truth is going to be a very important element.

Thank you for this post.
It will keep me cranking about it for days...

At 1:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was up against a older handicapped female who let a female relative steal thousands from her accounts. I couldn't understand why she was afraid to have her arrested. Then found out she 'paid' every time that relative took money in the past. She took her off the accounts and fired her only after another relative insisted. Then she allowed a female employee con her into cosigning a loan. She was sued by the finance company and had to pay it off. Was she being maniplated? Yes and no. She was operating from sentimentality only, trying to help. Nothing I said, penetrated her need to enable. And since she didn't want to be pitied, she got sucked into anothers' "pity party", feeling sorry for them. David Hume observed that pity which has in it a strong mixture of good-will, is nearly allied to contempt, which is a species of dislike, with a mixture of pride.

I saw it as her allowing those to badger her into "helping" and out of contempt mixed with pride give in to feeling relieved for a time and superior. She denies being "had" and had only contempt at my suggestions that she shouldn't be allowing herself to be used. I finally realized that sentimentality opposes reason.

At 11:40 AM, Blogger sonicido said...

Hi anonymous.
Yes, it may be like a "fix" to her.

Enablers are as twisted as perpetrators.
I know, because I was one.

But I do wonder,if there are some who are incurable, like the narcissist? or like a glutton who can not stop overeating even though they know the consequences- social consequences; and the suffering of physical injury from it.

I haven't read "Malignant Self Love" yet, (written by narcissist, Sam Vaknin), as I am going to read Kathy's book first: "What Makes a Narcissist Tick".
But if you aren't aware of, Dr. Sam Vaknin,

you should check him out. Learning about him, is a project in and of itself.

I don't know if a narcissist is "cured" because they have come out of the closet, or not. I believe he says it is incurable. I plan to make his testimony my curriculum after I am done with Kathy's book. I'm pretty excited-as I was emailed that it was in the mail yesterday!

At 11:46 AM, Blogger sonicido said...

I think this fits perfectly to your post...

Check it out.

At 1:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Talking about Hitler, a real N.! If you want to see how this worked exactly, how he managed to get so many people adoring him, not only Germans! There is a dvd called Speer and Hitler, with authentic material and witnesses who tell their story and some parts filmed. You will see how an N. does it, what a good actor he is..there is nothing more to it.. and how he pics the right people,of usage for him and his grandiosity. How he works on emotions. And how he, in the end, destroy's himself, since, like Kathy explained, it's all about their ego. That's why in the end they fail. But the damage done is inmens.

Scary part... worldwide nobody really learnt, everbody knows the story and says, this should not happen again, but... it happens, untill the day of to day, every day, and everybody is looking away! Although some "leaders" at this very moment are very very dangereous. Very N.!

Even more scary, if tomorrow an N. with this charm, charisma etc. would come, and the time and all parameters will be right, we all will face again a similair nightmare. And again the few who regognize the wrong, will not be able to reach the mass.!

jt. B

At 2:27 PM, Blogger Kathy said...

The human race never learns. Populism and demagoguery still work like magic to create a groundswell of support. People believe that a politician believes in the things he says he believes, despite proof in his track record that he is just an opportunist who might be a race-baiter one day, a socialist the next, a conservative the next and so on. Duh! That never gives the vast mass of dumbells a clue that he is just a just a narcissist revising the fictional character he passes off as HIM. Whatever he thinks the majority want is whatever he will be today. His demonizing the opposition works, so long as he then accuses the victim of being the one "dividing the country". No joke-lie is too obvious for them to get. People NEVER learn. If you have never seen film of one of Hitler's rants, go to YouTube and see some. I have always been struck by the stupid looks on the expressionless faces of the vast crowds gazing on him. Like they were drugged or hypnotized or something. It should never have happened, but it did. And it keeps on happening all over the world. And always, when the camera pans the crowd, you see the same sea of brain-dead looks. They don't care what he's doing and do want to unknow it, because all they care about is conformity with the rest of the herd.

At 4:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My family sympathized with my ex, but of course they are also Ns. My mom is a very special understanding angel to many but an N to me. Was manipulted out of the house as a young teen. Found out that my brother is in contact with my abusive ex and has been for years. I live very far from my family. I know they talk about me using negative implications. Am very much on guard when visiting.

At 5:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This reminds me of "The Sopranos". If you want to understand what exactly is wrong with being an N-sympathizer, watch and squirm.

At 7:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I found the following by Dr. Maria Chang about NPD and a suggestion of a new term, "EPD" (evil personality disorder). It contains many things you've said but I thought you might enjoy reading it.


At 8:21 PM, Blogger sonicido said...

I never get to see regular programs I only get to "grab" something here and there but I bet I can find them now at Movie Gallery to rent since they are making "sitcoms" available on DVD now. I'll check.
I really want to educate myself as much as possible. Some people think I'm being negative, but, my answer is, "Is that what you tell a college student studying forensic science?". That shuts them up.

I will do your recommendations.

and what you said...

How he works on emotions. And how he, in the end, destroy's himself, since, like Kathy explained, it's all about their ego. That's why in the end they fail. But the damage done is inmens.

It is true. They do always lose. But the damage the do....

At 9:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


I don't believe in enablers or codependents when it comes to Ns. There are only those who haven't woken up out of the N-Fog or been informed; which is why Kathy's blog is SOOOO important.

Right now my ex-N from 4 years ago has his wife and his buddies smearing me. For telling the truth. Posting all sorts of smack about me online. While I won't fight face to face with these bullies I will take legal action.

Those who say we should "let it go" or "move on" should be shot at dawn. Because in the meantime they take our peace of mind, reputation and anything else they can grab down the bowl of smear & projection with what's left of our self-esteem.

Nope. Not here.

At 9:53 AM, Blogger After Beckett said...

"I was up against a older handicapped female who let a female relative steal thousands from her accounts."

After reading this it made me think of my N-ex-mom. One year she took her brother's credit card to buy their mother a christmas gift from the brother. The brother has CP. Over the years she used the number to spend over $22,000. She was able to increase the credit limit because she was an employee at the store. He was too afraid to say anything so he paid as much as he could each month (with department store interest). He didn't want to cause trouble, because he thought if he tried to get his money back, and her husband found out, he would divorce her. (Doubtful because she managed to hide most of her lying, cheating and stealing.) So he put up with this. She has a long history of stealing money from anyone she can. To this day, 20 years later, I am not sure she paid him back.

At 8:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

dear kathy,

Unfortunately, it's sooooo true! So far.


Education is what makes people really think and creates overall respect for people and their cultures all over the world.

Because in the end, we are all people with the same basic emotions / problems, no matter were you're raised. (Travelled a lot!)

So let nobody get in you're way if you want to educate youselves, it's worth it!!!

May-be, one day, because of getting aware and acknowlegdement of the huge treat of N.'s in this world, our children may face another world.!

Well, dreaming is always allowed, is it?

jt. B

At 9:28 PM, Blogger sonicido said...

Anonymous (9:22 P.M.)

Now that is an interesting way of looking at enablers/codependents. I'd be interested to hear what
Kathy has to say about this. I am would like to make clear the subject, that is for sure.

If an "enabler" knew who they were "enabling" would they enable? If a shopper knew their money was going to KKK, would they shop there?

The thing I read a lot about Hitler, is that the people who "enabled" him, many times didn't really realize his motives when they supported him. Once they found out, they did not act for fear of losing many things that he could so easily take away. Maybe it is about motives? because some, enabled him because they agreed, and others because they were afraid. AND THEN THERE WERE EVEN OTHERS who used their "enabling" as a tool, to work behind his back and trick him.

But, then we have those who are SO DEPENDANT and can not see life without this "man" (any man/woman) that they continue to allow their abuse. That is my sick and twisted error. I was in so deep, with so many children, that I made excuses and helped him be a better ass every day.
Now, here comes the tricky part. I had no "Name" for him then, as I do now. I KNEW his actions were wrong and I made excuses for him because I wanted to "make it work" for various, obvious reasons.

So, maybe I wasn't "twisted" myself, but my actions were, for various reasons. The ways I enabled him are CRAZY!
People have said to me...
"No one in their right mind would have..."

At 7:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I heard this song with my inner ear when I read this post:

I broke a heart that's gentle and true
Well I broke a heart over someone like you
I'll beg his forgiveness on bended knee
I wouldn't blame him if he said to me

You're no good
You're no good
You're no good
Baby you're no good

snippet of "You're no good," sung by Linda Ronstadt and written by Clint Ballard, Jr.


At 8:17 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


Ns engage in a very covert form of hypnotizing their victims:

That's NOT enabling.

What kills me is the partners, friends, wives etc who are TOLD what the N is, SHOWN objective proof over & over & over and yet WILLFULLY CONTINUE TO DENY REALITY & DEFEND THEM!!

That's sick.


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